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  1. #11
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless Bets View Post
    Right but doesn't the RNG completely remove the notion of hot or cold machines? I mean if every spin is independent of past outcomes, you can't base future spins on how well you've been doing (though in the heat of the moment I'm sure we all do this anyway).
    All the RNG does is make it where you can not discern a pattern. But the casino can't hide if the machines have been tightened or loosened.
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  2. #12
    Absolutely, I'm just saying it's not possible to get a feel for a machines payout in any kind of short-term time period (like walking through the casino listening for a lot of bells). It takes a machine thousands or possibly millions of spins to near its theoretical return; meanwhile people playing are just going to see short term payouts that could be 1000% or 0%.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless Bets View Post
    Absolutely, I'm just saying it's not possible to get a feel for a machines payout in any kind of short-term time period (like walking through the casino listening for a lot of bells). It takes a machine thousands or possibly millions of spins to near its theoretical return; meanwhile people playing are just going to see short term payouts that could be 1000% or 0%.
    Sorry to be so contrary, but you are trying to attribute Class III, non-server based machine behavior to Class II. For a player who plays a certain game a lot, a few percentage points of change in payback will be sensed fairly quickly, even in Class III. With Class II, you have other evidence: bingo cards with good patterns possible, hit frequency, bells ringing, and red spins. I think to disregard a marked and sustained shift in these things, and attribute the changes to "randomness," is a mistake.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Flex's Avatar
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    RB,
    I've been playing in Oklahoma casinos for a few years now, all Class II machines are sever based, and you had be able to tell if a bank was hot by all the ringing, the Native American Casinos in Oklahoma work off a bingo card which you see in the screen on the machine, I was told from someone who worked for VGT, that you compete for bingo, and it all depends on how much a casino wants to payout you will notice that Casinos tend to pay out differently, in my opinion at different times of the month. And I also know that the program that controls the VGT machines was updated at the Casino I play at in May of last year, which in my opinion put more randomness in the machines, so if your in a bigger Casino it's harder to find an area that is paying out. And I'll leave you with on last bit of information I got from a VGT employee a couple of years ago, what he told me is that, the machines work similar to playing Live Bingo, i.e " your purchasing Bingo cards when you play there machines. He told me it cost $1 per bingo card and depending on what denomination your on, you could get more bingo cards paid for by playing higher denomination machines.
    I hope this makes it clear as Mud, only thing I will leave you with is always Try the High Limit areas, in whatever Casino you frequent and you should have some decent Luck.
    Take care and I'll leave you with this final thought, If you gamble as much in Oklahoma as you did in Las Vegas and only played slots, which Casinos do you think would pay you better???

    Looking forward to your thoughts.

    Good Luck and Welcome to the Forum

  5. #15
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    How the various types of Class II machines actually work is intentionally kept vague. This is because the indians are telling the government...this is bingo, this is bingo...just electronic and really fast. The reels and spins just display the outcome of the bingo game. And while that is technically true, if the inner workings of the class II games were made more transparent then it increases the likelihood that the regulators will look more closely at them and possibly classify them as slots not bingo. The "adjustments" they make in order for there to be constant play going on could cause them to be viewed as slots rather than true bingo. What about when you have a fairly empty casino, with some people playing penny machines and one guy playing high limits at $25 a spin or more? How exactly are they playing bingo against each other when the stakes and prizes are vastly different? Things like that are generally not ever made public knowledge...

  6. #16
    Well I got the chance to test out my theory somewhat this past weekend. Woke up fairly early on Sunday morning and hit the casino. Probably only a dozen or so other people in there. Played one of the VGT video reel bingo machines, and before long had my $200 up to $2300. I took that and promptly lost it all a little later when more people had arrived. Probably a statistically insignificant anecdote, but I'll keep testing it.

    That said I'm still thoroughly confused how the bingo reels work. Watching the pattern I could tell when some spins were going to be wins, but then again some seemed like they should have been but turned up squat. And the machines had no indication on the side if they were Class II or not.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckless Bets View Post
    Well I got the chance to test out my theory somewhat this past weekend. Woke up fairly early on Sunday morning and hit the casino. Probably only a dozen or so other people in there. Played one of the VGT video reel bingo machines, and before long had my $200 up to $2300. I took that and promptly lost it all a little later when more people had arrived. Probably a statistically insignificant anecdote, but I'll keep testing it.

    That said I'm still thoroughly confused how the bingo reels work. Watching the pattern I could tell when some spins were going to be wins, but then again some seemed like they should have been but turned up squat. And the machines had no indication on the side if they were Class II or not.
    I have noticed the same thing. My big hits are at odd hours. Not always, of course. There's an RNG underneath it all. But still significant.

    Thanks for reporting!
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  8. #18
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    I have to say that while I really enjoy playing Class II bingo slots (love the VGT red spins), they also tend to frustrate me the most. I think the problem is that I know the patterns too well. It's very aggravating when you spin and get a card that has many possible big wins and then it hits nothing or just a small hit and no red screen. It's even worse when you spin and get a card that has NO possible win on it and you know it's a dead spin before the reels even finish spinning. Sometimes I wish there was an option to hide the card to help bring back the excitement...because honestly, even when it red spins I have a pretty good idea what it's going to hit just by knowing the patterns. The only time I tend to get excited now is when the screen stays red after hitting all the small patterns I've already predicted. I've started playing the 5-reel VGT games that are like "sequels" to Lucky Ducks, Red Hot Ruby, etc. There are way more possible win patterns and the same pattern will hit multiple times depending on how high up on the winning numbers list the pattern is made. It's nothing to see a machine stay red for 10-15 spins. The trade-off is the payouts are smaller in proportion to bet size of the 3-reel VGTs.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironfreak247 View Post
    I have to say that while I really enjoy playing Class II bingo slots (love the VGT red spins), they also tend to frustrate me the most. I think the problem is that I know the patterns too well. It's very aggravating when you spin and get a card that has many possible big wins and then it hits nothing or just a small hit and no red screen. It's even worse when you spin and get a card that has NO possible win on it and you know it's a dead spin before the reels even finish spinning. Sometimes I wish there was an option to hide the card to help bring back the excitement...because honestly, even when it red spins I have a pretty good idea what it's going to hit just by knowing the patterns. The only time I tend to get excited now is when the screen stays red after hitting all the small patterns I've already predicted. I've started playing the 5-reel VGT games that are like "sequels" to Lucky Ducks, Red Hot Ruby, etc. There are way more possible win patterns and the same pattern will hit multiple times depending on how high up on the winning numbers list the pattern is made. It's nothing to see a machine stay red for 10-15 spins. The trade-off is the payouts are smaller in proportion to bet size of the 3-reel VGTs.
    Like you, I recognize the patterns, but I actually like it. First, if there are a lot of full screens where nothing hits, or if there are a lot of screens where no winning patterns are possible, I figure the machine is cold. Second, sometime during a red spin I'll call the result and the players beside me think I'm psychic.

    An easy one is where private stripes hits, the screen turns red, and there is nothing on the bottom row. I'll say, "Hot dog!" When it hits, if the people are new, they'll be amazed. But if they're regulars/pro's in the HL room, they'll say, "Duh."
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