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  1. #1
    Senior Member Dougray2's Avatar
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    Craps- betting against the dice

    In previous posts, I have discussed most of the bets on the craps table when betting with the dice. However, there is another option for craps players, and that's betting against the dice. This is also called betting the dark side or wrong betting. I don't like that term because it's not morally wrong to bet against the dice. But, you are betting against most of the other players and you will not be too popular at the table.

    The don't pass bet is almost the opposite of the pass line bet. It can only be made on the come out roll. Don't pass bets lose if 7 or 11 is rolled on the come out. It wins if 2 or 3 is rolled on the come out. If 12 is rolled, the don't pass bet pushes. (In Reno, the 12 wins and 2 pushes) Any other number will establish a point. After the point is up, the don't pass bets wins if the shooter rolls a 7 before making the point. If the shooter makes the point before rolling a 7, the don't pass bet loses.

    Don't come bets work the same way, except don't come bets can only be made after a point is established. The house edge on don't pass and don't come bets is 1.36%, which is slightly better than the 1.41% edge on pass line and come bets.

  2. #2
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    I usually play the Don'ts when I play craps. It's nothing personal about any of the other players/shooters, it's about what way I can consistantly make money on a craps table. True you would like to hope for a hot table for a roll that goes on for hours - but statistically people seven-out within 9 rolls.

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    Senior Member Dougray2's Avatar
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    You can also make odds bets along with don't pass and don't come bets, but this time you are laying odds instead of taking odds. One disadvantages to laying odds is that the payoff is less than even money. the exact payoff depends on what the point number is.

    6 and 8- payoff is 5 to 6
    5 and 9- payoff is 2 to 3
    4 and 10- payoff is 1 to 2

    Let's say you are making a $5 don't pass bet and you want to win $10 by laying odds. To win $10, you will have to bet $12 if the point is 6 or 8, $15 if the point is 5 or 9, and $20 if the point is 4 or 10. You might be thinking, "Why would I lay odds when the payoff is less than what I'm betting?" Because once a point is established, the odds are in the don't players favor. There is a better chance that the 7 will be rolled before the point number is repeated. The one problem with laying odds is, if a shooter gets hot, the don't bettors can lose lots of money in a hurry. I've seen lots of darkside players just bet don't pass and don't come without odds to avoid the less than even money payouts.

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    Senior Member Dougray2's Avatar
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    The only other darkside bets I know of are lay bets. This is the opposite of buy bets. You are betting that a 7 will be rolled before the number being laid.

    lay 6 and 8- pays 5 to 6
    lay 5 and 9- pays 2 to 3
    lay 4 and 10- pays 1 to 2

    Also, like buy bets, the casino charges a 5% commission on all lay bets.

    Personally, I will not bet against the dice. I have been tempted to do it at cold tables, but to me, it takes all the fun out of the game. Part of the appeal of craps is the camaraderie with other players, almost like being on a sports team. Everyone has the same goal, for the shooter to win or roll point numbers and not the dreaded 7. It's no fun when you're betting against almost everyone else. Also, you can never take advantage of a hot roll from the darkside. A hot roll from the darkside is several shooters in a row not making a point.

    I'm not saying that darkside players are bad people or that they are playing the wrong way. It is a valid, legal way to play and, as Rob recently showed, it's possible to win playing darkside. Whichever way you choose to play, I hope the dice are nice to you!!

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    Others just can't take it personally when a darkside player is betting against you...he/she is betting on a number as you are

  6. #6
    Senior Member Dougray2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYphinix View Post
    Others just can't take it personally when a darkside player is betting against you...he/she is betting on a number as you are
    I agree Rob, and I've never had a problem with a darkside player. I have had a couple of interesting encounters. The first was at Wynn in Vegas. The table started off hot, then turned cold and these 2 guys walked up to the table and played the darkside. I was the next shooter and they bet don't pass and don't come, then made a 6 1 hop bet. My next roll was 6 1 and they cheered loudly while everyone else lost. Then they gave me $20 (4 red chips) for rolling the 6 1 and gave the dealers a big tip too. I don't know how much they bet, but they won a bundle and at least were nice enough to share it.

    The other one was at Beau Rivage Biloxi a couple months ago. The guy to my left was betting don't and he rolled the dice, which is unusual. I was betting my usual pass line/odds and place 6 and 8. He made 3 points while betting don't and I made about $100 on his roll. Then he switched to pass line/odds and of course, rolled a 7 right after that. I won't repeat what he said, but it wasn't very nice.

  7. #7
    Senior Member sparks's Avatar
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    i usually play the Dont side; i will change over to Pass line at a hot table;
    i shoot from the Dont side all the time; DICE HAVE NO EYES - they dont know/care how u bet;
    when i shoot, i actually try to throw 10 4 9 then i try for the 7; i do set the dice; figure it cant hurt; do i always win - no; hav 1 sevened out on the 4 th roll? yes,repeatedly;
    so i bet DONT PASS with 2 DONT COME bets;
    the only other bets i make are:
    1. single odds on the DONT PASS with my 1st DONT COME bet in the DC box; this is to protect agaainst a 7 onthe 2nd roll; if a number rolls, my DC bet goes up and i remove my odds from the DP;
    2. if the DP point or a DC point is EVEN, then i bet enough on the HARDWAY to cover my DP/DC bet;
    this is called a HEDGE bet;

    this is why this game fascinates me - imagine if you could bet on blackjack hands that the house will win...or on a slot machine that the next spin u wont win anything; betting the house will win, IN ALL GAMES, is statiscally/ mathematically favorite - how many people would take that bet - that the house will win/u wouldnt win on the next spin? only Craps (and baccarat, but that's another show...)
    The beatings shall continue until the morale improves.

    "if I only had a little humility, I'd be perfect.'

  8. #8
    Senior Member sparks's Avatar
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    clarification:
    the reason for 1. : if the 2nd roll is a 7, u lose the DONT COME bet;
    The beatings shall continue until the morale improves.

    "if I only had a little humility, I'd be perfect.'

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    I take time off playing slots to play craps. Doing it because I like craps and also to cool off if I am not doing well on slots.
    I have played the don't on many many occasions. Dealers roll their eyes, fellow players look at you like you are the devil. It's hard. But,... I do agree most of the times I have done better. Let me add that I am a rather conservative craps player, staying away from all the "fancy" bets on the felt.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Dougray2's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing your strategy Sparks. I'm always interested to learn how other people play the game and the different ways to play.

    @Moto- you have to have thick skin to play the darkside. Other players will treat you like public enemy #1. I admit I don't like it when I'm losing and darksiders are winning, but they have every right to play that way, and as long as they are not rude or obnoxious, they should not be hassled.

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