Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24
  1. #11
    Senior Member Rich99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,476
    Likes (Given)
    9518
    Likes (Received)
    4311
    Quote Originally Posted by merlot_1 View Post
    My Host says only 3 things determine the amount of FP for a slot player

    1 Hours played per visit
    2 Bet Size
    3 Spins per hour
    What happened to 2 and 3? lol. !
    Here with You! since 9/29/09

  2. #12
    Senior Member Grid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    335
    Likes (Given)
    249
    Likes (Received)
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich99 View Post
    Which leads me to the following hypothetical question...
    i.e. Player "A" is betting $1 a spin and spinning rapidly, Player "B" is betting $2 a spin but playing more slowly, at the end of one hour they have cycled thru the exact same amount. Would or should their points earned be the same?...
    A lot of the larger casino chains are running advanced analytical software now to put a better value on a player. That value translates into comps.

    Player A is betting $1 a spin for 5 hours. Player B is betting $5 a spin for 1 hour. At the end of the day, they both ran through the same coin, playing at the same speed and both playing the same penny machines.

    The old logic would dictate player B is a better player, since they bet bigger. But the math says player A is more valuable to the casino. Why? They play longer, exposing themselves more to the house's built in advatage. Player B plays big. Is much more likely to hit for more (due to the bet size) and proves they leave a lot sooner.

    Player A gets better offers.

    Quote Originally Posted by newenglander82 View Post
    I think the total amount cycled through is the most important but I've heard that in some casinos the length of time to get to that is a factor, so if you are max betting for 1 hour vs. low rolling for 4 hours and cycle through the same amount, the casino would slightly prefer the 1 hour case. But who knows if that's true (?)
    I would assume both get the same offers based on the same coin. Since there is not the extreme as in my above.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Rich99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,476
    Likes (Given)
    9518
    Likes (Received)
    4311
    @Grid. Thanx for your explanation! It makes perfect sense...
    Here with You! since 9/29/09

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,225
    Likes (Given)
    1281
    Likes (Received)
    1168
    I would disagree about the time factor on slot machines, but hear me out.

    In the old days in slots and still today in table games, time was/is certainly a factor in player ratings. Once casinos gained the ability on slot machines to measure the exact number and size of wagers (through the player's card), looking at time becomes pretty much irrelevant. The casino is looking at how much the player is worth which is calculated by theoretical losses (amount wagered X theo hold) and/or actual losses. So, if you generate $1,000 of coin in on 10% machines, your theoretical value is $100 to the casino. It won't (well, shouldn't) matter whether it takes you an hour to generate that or four hours.

    With table games, it is still uncommon to have the ability to track every wager. Due to this time is always a factor in the player ratings. There are systems that use RFID chips and those can help the accuracy of player ratings a great deal, but we still don't have complete systems in any sort of wide use that track all bets and all game outcomes to the same level of accuracy that we've had on slot machines for the last 20 or more years.

    In my experience I've never heard of time being used as a factor in rewarding slot players for any casino that uses a real-time or "online" player card system. (In the old days we did have off-line systems where you'd have a player's card but you didn't insert it into the machines. You simply handed it to the club rep who would come by every 30 minutes or so, swipe your card, and add points based on what denom you were playing)

    That's not to say it has never happened or isn't happening anywhere. It could be. If so, I'd love to hear the logic behind it.
    Warren Davidson
    Director of Slots
    Coushatta Casino Resort

    For up to date info and new game announcements, follow us on Facebook!

  5. #15
    Member merlot_1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    97
    Likes (Given)
    202
    Likes (Received)
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren View Post
    I would disagree about the time factor on slot machines, but hear me out.

    In the old days in slots and still today in table games, time was/is certainly a factor in player ratings. Once casinos gained the ability on slot machines to measure the exact number and size of wagers (through the player's card), looking at time becomes pretty much irrelevant. The casino is looking at how much the player is worth which is calculated by theoretical losses (amount wagered X theo hold) and/or actual losses. So, if you generate $1,000 of coin in on 10% machines, your theoretical value is $100 to the casino. It won't (well, shouldn't) matter whether it takes you an hour to generate that or four hours.

    With table games, it is still uncommon to have the ability to track every wager. Due to this time is always a factor in the player ratings. There are systems that use RFID chips and those can help the accuracy of player ratings a great deal, but we still don't have complete systems in any sort of wide use that track all bets and all game outcomes to the same level of accuracy that we've had on slot machines for the last 20 or more years.

    In my experience I've never heard of time being used as a factor in rewarding slot players for any casino that uses a real-time or "online" player card system. (In the old days we did have off-line systems where you'd have a player's card but you didn't insert it into the machines. You simply handed it to the club rep who would come by every 30 minutes or so, swipe your card, and add points based on what denom you were playing)

    That's not to say it has never happened or isn't happening anywhere. It could be. If so, I'd love to hear the logic behind it.
    My host,{Venetian Las Vegas} says hours played is the MAIN factor because the longer one plays, the more likely they will chase their losses and lose even more, plus they will hopefully give back anything they won.
    Last edited by merlot_1; 08-25-2018 at 02:57 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    368
    Likes (Given)
    423
    Likes (Received)
    302
    I have played long and very hard at Foxwoods for years, my comps were great when I was playing mostly high limit stuff and also in the beginning when I was loosing my shirt playing 1c games at max bet, but remember there is a 2-3 month lag. This means comps in August were based on May or June's play. The biggest way to get comps cut there is to just go in and cash out your fp on a month when you have a lot of it, believe you me 2-3 months down the road your comps will be decimated lol. Foxwoods also does player reviews every few months to see which players are taking advantage of too many comps vs play, this is something that started in Vegas some years back. Also are you sure that you are not cycling less $$ with the lower bets?
    Quote Originally Posted by MattMaher35 View Post
    I always assumed it didn't matter. As long as the end result was you cycled say 5K through their machines it didn't matter if it came from a shorter session doing max bets between $3 and $5 or a longer session betting between $1 and $2 per spin.

    However, I was just watching one of Brian Christopher's videos and he was using a friend's player's card because he was low rolling as opposed to max betting, noting it would negatively affect his comps to low roll after only exclusively max betting.

    Anyone know the answer to this? If he's right, that's BS, but it would explain why my Foxwoods comps have been going down the toilet recently despite cycling(losing) the same amount through their machines per session. The only difference is I haven't been max betting as much recently because I was sick of going through my bank roll so quickly most sessions.
    Last edited by tripledoublediamond; 08-26-2018 at 07:50 AM.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Rich99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,476
    Likes (Given)
    9518
    Likes (Received)
    4311
    "Daily Average" A few yrs ago someone in here (can't remember who) mentioned that most casinos use a daily average of coin in to determine comps.
    He also said the next day usually begins around 4am. He cautioned that peeps that are staying over night weather it be one night or longer to not use their players club card on check out day. His reasoning was most peeps only play for an hour or two after or just before they check out which will result in lowering their daily average for the entire stay...
    Is this or was this true?
    Here with You! since 9/29/09

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,225
    Likes (Given)
    1281
    Likes (Received)
    1168
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich99 View Post
    "Daily Average" A few yrs ago someone in here (can't remember who) mentioned that most casinos use a daily average of coin in to determine comps.
    He also said the next day usually begins around 4am. He cautioned that peeps that are staying over night weather it be one night or longer to not use their players club card on check out day. His reasoning was most peeps only play for an hour or two after or just before they check out which will result in lowering their daily average for the entire stay...
    Is this or was this true?
    It's important to separate comps and cashback-for-points from free play offers as they are typically earned in different ways. Comps (used for retail and restaurant purchases) and cashback-for-points are typically earned bit by bit as you play and it won't matter if you play heavy one day and lightly the next.

    Free play offers on the other hand are typically generated by formulas that look at past play. Often the play is averaged by day or by "trip" (which would cover multiple days in a row). It really depends upon the casino's systems as to whether their formulas are looking at averaged days or trips. Some slot systems are fully integrated into the hotel room systems and in this case the casino may choose to look at the trip rather than single days. If this is the case, playing super heavy on one day and then just a few bucks on the way out the door the next day shouldn't hurt your rating since the whole trip is being evaluated. On the other hand, if the casino is looking at individual days only, then yes, one heavy play day and then a few bucks in the machine on the way out the door will average out and your rating will be lower than if you hadn't played a few bucks on the way out the door.

    It would be impossible to make a blanket statement that would cover all casinos since they all can and may do things differently. The best thing to do in this situation is to ask. If the answer isn't immediate and firm then the person you're talking to may not really know. In that case, go higher up.
    Warren Davidson
    Director of Slots
    Coushatta Casino Resort

    For up to date info and new game announcements, follow us on Facebook!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Rich99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    7,476
    Likes (Given)
    9518
    Likes (Received)
    4311
    @Warren. Thank You for your detailed explanation!!
    Here with You! since 9/29/09

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    368
    Likes (Given)
    423
    Likes (Received)
    302
    you give the best most detailed answers, we are really fortunate to have you on here
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren View Post
    It's important to separate comps and cashback-for-points from free play offers as they are typically earned in different ways. Comps (used for retail and restaurant purchases) and cashback-for-points are typically earned bit by bit as you play and it won't matter if you play heavy one day and lightly the next.

    Free play offers on the other hand are typically generated by formulas that look at past play. Often the play is averaged by day or by "trip" (which would cover multiple days in a row). It really depends upon the casino's systems as to whether their formulas are looking at averaged days or trips. Some slot systems are fully integrated into the hotel room systems and in this case the casino may choose to look at the trip rather than single days. If this is the case, playing super heavy on one day and then just a few bucks on the way out the door the next day shouldn't hurt your rating since the whole trip is being evaluated. On the other hand, if the casino is looking at individual days only, then yes, one heavy play day and then a few bucks in the machine on the way out the door will average out and your rating will be lower than if you hadn't played a few bucks on the way out the door.

    It would be impossible to make a blanket statement that would cover all casinos since they all can and may do things differently. The best thing to do in this situation is to ask. If the answer isn't immediate and firm then the person you're talking to may not really know. In that case, go higher up.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •