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  1. #11
    Senior Member jmbsocalif's Avatar
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    All of it is extremely well regulated and it has to be. The video bingo machines are regulated by the NIGA, a federal gaming agency for the tribes. They risk losing those machines if they do not function exactly to specs. The tribe has no control over the payouts as it is all pari-mutel. Meaning it is the players that control the payouts. Meaning the more that are playing in the bank, the higher the payouts will be. And the machines typically always say waiting for players. My info on how the video bingo machines are supposed to operate is from the NIGA and that is public info.

  2. #12
    Senior Member jmbsocalif's Avatar
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    Sorry folks, it is NIGC, national Indian gaming association. They are the ones that approve Class II bingo slots and approve class III compacts between the tribes and state officials that allow Vegas-style games. They have rejected some CA state compacts because the tribes did not have proper measures to effectively run class III machines. They have also prevented some tribes from installing class II machines as well due to problems with proper software accounting and correct measures to maintain proper bingo draws. All of this info is on the website as well as a detailed list if regulations. Those of you who head to your locals, like Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun for east coasters, you are technically playing class III slots. This is because there is a compact between CT and the tribes that allow Vegas-style games for 25% of the profits. Both Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun has class II in the beginning. They got their slots finally in the early 90s.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    jmb, you seem to know a lot about Class II. Do you play a lot of Class II? Also, how do you know Indian gaming is "well regulated?" Can you point me to any reports generated by the regulators in, say, Oklahoma? Finally, can you point me to the statute, rule, or regulation with the parimutuel requirement? Thanks.

  4. #14
    Senior Member jmbsocalif's Avatar
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    You can find all the answers to these questions on the agency website. www.nigc.gov

    I have kept up with the news regarding regulations of the Tribes and casinos because it directly affects revenue here in California. The tribes here in CA have contributed several billion dollars into our state coffers through the compacts. It has become such integral part of the CA economy. California has the second most number of casinos after Nevada.

    The agency regulation is based on the standards of Nevada and New Jersey. Even if a state approves a compact either through a referendum or a legislative act, the agency has to approve it. So the compact has to be approved twice, both by the state and the commission. It would be like a slot operation in Nevada would have to be approved twice for a slot license. This is how the compact approval works

    If you look on the website, there is a list of state compacts that were approved and not approved with the reasons why. There are a ton of regulations on their website..way to numerous to list.

    Also, you also have the right to file a formal complaint to the commission if you feel that the indian casino you are visiting is fishy. I would suggest that if you think your casino has had some issues, file a formal complaint.

    Regarding, OK, they passed a proposition, that allowed them to have instant bingo machines. However, they do run differently from other CLASS II casinos. The instant bingo draw is done extremely fast, and the result is delivered to the machine. You would not know the difference between a regular slot and an OK slot. The play is exactly the same as a regular vegas-style machine. You might have noticed the same machines in OK casinos as they do in vegas. That is because they can, provided that a Central Computer makes the draw, and delivers the result to the machine. That allows them to offer these machines. In fact, if you go to IGT's website, you will see a link for Oklahoma instant bingo machines or central determination (lottery style) machines.

    The other non-OK bingo slots are still central determination (meaning a computer makes the draw), and delivers the result to the machine, but there is a live bingo draw that does take place. You can see a momentary delay, llong reel spin, and often you have to DAUB or push the button an additional time, like you would daub with a ink dauber on a paper bingo card. IF you do NOT DAUB, you will lose the draw, just like in live paper bingo.

    Live bingo always is pari-mutuel...meaning if you have multiple winners in a draw, the money is divided equally among winners. You are not playing against the house, but each other. Any money not won in the draw, is automatically carried over into the next. Each state that allows bingo all have their own state requirements. That same requirement applies to CLASS II non-compacted tribes. Oklahoma has its own regulations regarding bingo, and the casinos that offer either the electronic or paper version have to follow by it or else the state could legally take the machines away or the commission could do it as well.

    I agree, it is extremely complicated. Nevada and New Jersey have much simpiler regulations. It is much harder for a tribe to get a CLASS III compact than it is for a casino to open in Nevada or New Jersey.

    I do not know if this answers all your questions....

    Jesse

  5. #15
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Jesse, think about my questions. I wasn't expecting any answers, except as to your experience and personal observations. I just want all of us, myself included, to consider how little we actually know about the subject. I like your YouTube page, BTW.

  6. #16
    Senior Member jmbsocalif's Avatar
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    No worries at all moneybags.... Sorry if I over did it :(

    Personally I hated them. Too complicated to understand...I and I completely understand your feelings. I wanted to study up on how they work, and the political scientist me kinda took over...LOL.

    Thanks alot for the tube page... trying to work on it....

  7. #17
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneybags View Post
    jmb, you seem to know a lot about Class II. Do you play a lot of Class II? Also, how do you know Indian gaming is "well regulated?" Can you point me to any reports generated by the regulators in, say, Oklahoma? Finally, can you point me to the statute, rule, or regulation with the parimutuel requirement? Thanks.
    Indian gaming can be self regulated. In Oklahoma, there are no public reports and no payout minimums. Pari-mutuel is where the betting determines the odds, like in horseracing. In Oklahoma there are never two winners - the first one to get it wins. Again, get bingo out of your minds. Class II machines are to bingo what video poker is to poker. Only the odds of winning combinations resemble the live games. Everything else is different. If you play VP exactly as you would live poker, you will be at a disadvantage. Same thing with Class II and believing that you are in some sort of live bingo game. Just think of Class II as a soup-up version of server based gaming.
    Last edited by Moneybags; 12-01-2012 at 10:04 AM.

  8. #18
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    hi there. - bingo slots

    loved reading your message and am trying so hard to comprehend it all. just learned about this 'bingo pattern' yesterday and i'm really interested to know more. could you possibly answer the following questions for me? thanks so much in advance. - cathy

    1. some machines are HOT - while others aren't. can you 'change' that pattern, or do you need to go to another machine?
    2. how much should you put into a machine before moving on?
    3. once you 'see' the good pattern, should you hit spin just once or several times?

    thanks again - i am going to keep re-reading this trying to learn it. the guy at choctaw yesterday said they paid a $20 million dollar fine for 'changing' the pattern payout, - did you hear that as well?

    cathy

    Quote Originally Posted by ironfreak247 View Post
    Being in west Arkansas, the closest casinos we have are eastern Oklahoma Indian casinos, which are known for the Class II bingo slot machines. My favorites are the Lucky Ducky, Crazy Bill's and the other 3 reel slots with the red spin features.

    I've been playing these pretty heavily since early summer, and I think I've finally got them figured out. To be honest, it does take a little of the fun away knowing how the bingo numbers and patterns work, and once you learn a certain game's patterns and payouts, you often have a good idea what's gonna come up when the machine red spins. I still get pleasantly surprised, but it doesn't happen often anymore. Here's what I've learned so far...

    You can watch the screen before playing; it will cycle through all the winning bingo patterns and what they pay on each bet. I've seen people under the assumption that they have to "wait" or "pick" a pattern to go for lol. They don't realize it's just "advertising" so to speak.

    Red spins occur when you have more than one winning bingo pattern on your card. The spins are awarded from lowest to highest. For example, if you get a red spin after getting mixed bars, the red spin will be something equal to or greater than the mixed bar payout. If you get more than 2 winning patterns, it will continue to red spin until all patterns/payouts have been awarded. I once seen a machine go red on mixed bars, then the machine proceeded to red spin AT LEAST 7 times after, with the last spin being triple bar, duck, duck on a quarter machine for over 400. My personal record so far is 5 red spins on Lucky Duck for over 900 on a dollar slot.

    You get a new randomly generated bingo card every time you hit the spin button. Right below where your card is displayed, you can see all the bingo numbers that have been called so far. You'll see a set of gold/orange numbers, then you;ll see a set of white numbers that are "called" by the machine every second or so. Here's the catch...you only get a payout for a bingo pattern if that pattern is made up of the gold/orange numbers. The white numbers being called out will be marked on your card, but you can't win anything off them. As more white numbers are called, the more impressive your bingo cards look as you hit the spin button, but still, you only get credit for patterns made up of gold numbers. Think of the white numbers as a countdown to the next bingo game; once all the bingo numbers have been called, a new game is started and the gold/orange numbers are changed. When a new game is started, 38 numbers are randomly generated to be gold "winning" numbers and then the server begins calling out the rest of the numbers in white until they have all been called again.

    Different casinos have different winning patterns; at one casino here, a triple bars payout on Lucky Ducky is getting a peace sign on the bingo card, whereas at another casino the same payout is achieved by getting an "L" pattern. Again, the numbers making up these patterns have to be in the gold/orange section. You can also get what I call a "double trigger" on the same pattern. My local Lucky Ducky machines have an "anchor" pattern that gives you 2 double bars and a duck for 120 credits max bet. However, if all the gold numbers that make up that pattern are also in the FIRST 27 gold numbers listed, it will turn red and hit the anchor pattern again, but this time you will get the scattered 3 ducks for an additional 480 credits. There are 3 patterns that I know of that hit this way: champagne glass, anchor, and quotation mark I believe. These are also the highest hits you can get without hitting the jackpot, hence the reason they're so hard to hit.

    There are some anomalities I haven't been able to understand yet though. For example, the "cross corner" bingo pattern on Lucky Ducky is a small cross in the center of the card plus all four corner spaces. Normally, you will get credit for just the small cross first, then get a red spin that hits the cross corner pattern, which is displayed on the reels as two mixed bars and a duck. However, sometimes I've hit this without a red spin; I'm puzzled over why it doesn't always red spin when you clearly have 2 winning patterns in one. I've also hit some really big hits that just roll down without red spinning at all; most big hits are complicated patterns that also contain other smaller winning patterns within them.

    I think I'm starting to ramble lol...but I hope that this may help anyone who plays these games and maybe has a hard time understanding when and where the red spins come from. Yes, once you learn all the patterns, it does take some of the thrill of a red spin away...unless you have a pretty full card and it red spins; so many bingo combinations are possible at that point and it happens so fast and you don't have time to see which numbers on your card are in the gold or white category. I wish there was an option to hide the bingo card from view; that would really make it exciting.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Moneybags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathy View Post
    loved reading your message and am trying so hard to comprehend it all. just learned about this 'bingo pattern' yesterday and i'm really interested to know more. could you possibly answer the following questions for me? thanks so much in advance. - cathy

    1. some machines are HOT - while others aren't. can you 'change' that pattern, or do you need to go to another machine?
    2. how much should you put into a machine before moving on?
    3. once you 'see' the good pattern, should you hit spin just once or several times?

    thanks again - i am going to keep re-reading this trying to learn it. the guy at choctaw yesterday said they paid a $20 million dollar fine for 'changing' the pattern payout, - did you hear that as well?

    cathy
    The machines are networked, so a machine that appears hot may not be the next day. Sometimes they're all hot or cold. Just remember, there's an RNG underneath it all. This afternoon, I was playing $5 machines in a "cold" room, and won $900 in 2 hours. No one hit was big enough for a picture. It was just luck.

    On a high denom machine, I give it 5 spins.

    The patterns change with every spin. What I look for are possible winning patterns, then a hit one out of 5 spins, and a red spin one out of 5 hits.

    I didn't hear about the fine.
    Looking for a particular club? Try the Club Thread Thread: http://slotfanatics.com/showthread.p...-Thread-Thread

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  10. #20
    Junior Member Powercat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moneybags View Post
    The machines are networked, so a machine that appears hot may not be the next day. Sometimes they're all hot or cold. Just remember, there's an RNG underneath it all. This afternoon, I was playing $5 machines in a "cold" room, and won $900 in 2 hours. No one hit was big enough for a picture. It was just luck.

    On a high denom machine, I give it 5 spins.

    The patterns change with every spin. What I look for are possible winning patterns, then a hit one out of 5 spins, and a red spin one out of 5 hits.

    I didn't hear about the fine.
    I only play VGT three reel machines at NA casinos in Oklahoma. I was at a casino in Norman when a young man was standing behind me and every spin he wopuld say either 'nah' or 'there ya go'. I finally asked him what he was talking about. He took fifteen minutes to explain to me that I could tell if I had a possible winning spin by looking at the bingo card. Since then I have developed my own 'system' which I will share with all of you. Fact is, I have done very well since adopting this style of play.

    Here we go. I always look for what I call inside square. That's the four squares that are at diagonals to the center square. If a machine has those four squares lit up and the machine doesn't pay at least mixed bars it's not a good sign. If it doesn't pay when they light up three times I will move to another machine. I have been on machines that will pay what I call inside diamond and outside diamond but those machines never seem to pay off big. I will move on. Also, if a machine pays, say, inside squares but there's also the possibility of a T pattern payoff or Private stripes or even outside squares and it doesn't turn red....I usually move on.

    Simply put, I want a machine that will pay inside squares at least once before it has three possible times without paying. If it does, I will look for other possible patterns and if it pays inside square three times without turning red when there are other winning patterns there (like outside squares), I will cash out and move on.

    Man, if you don't play these machines, you have NO idea what I'm talking about!

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